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希特拉是素食者? Hitler was NOT a vegetarian

本主題由 Ladykylie 於 2010-3-10 00:16 置頂

希特拉是素食者? Hitler was NOT a vegetarian

希特拉是素食者?

其實不然。

很多記述素食者資料也把納粹黨的希特拉例入素食者名單內.
但他只實行'素食'一年,原因也不是animal right, (human right他也不理,何來animal right),而是純粹因為他是個相信 supernatural 的人, 認為肉食 (屍體) 的毒素會影響他的精神意識和能量,所以他只實行了一年來淨他身體,一年後便再吃肉.


那為什麼書本會把希特拉例入'素食者'的名單中呢?顯然是某些非素食人仕對素食生活反感, 想把素食說成一件不好的事情來錯誤引導讀者. 下面是其中一些找到的參考資料:
引用:
SOURCE: http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/hitler.html

Hitler was not a vegetarian
by Michael Bluejay • 2007


Before we see the evidence that Hitler wasn't a vegetarian, it's important to look at where the argument that he was comes from, because it's an argument that's rarely made honestly.


People who insist that Hitler was a vegetarian usually just "heard it" somewhere,and immediately assumed it was true -- much like the idea that Microsoft is conducting an email test and they'll pay you when you forward that message to everyone you know. And yet, if you tell them that Hitler wasn't actually a vegetarian, these same people who instantly believed in Hitler's vegetarianism without question, suddenly demand all manner of proof that he was not.

Why do they require such a high standard of evidencethat Hitler was not a vegetarian, when they require noevidence at all that he was?


Simple: They want to believe that Hitler was a vegetarian.
Many meat-eaters are threatened by vegetarianism because it implies that they're doing something wrong. But armed with the (mistaken) idea that the most infamous butcher ever to live was a veggie, that allows them to easily dismiss the whole concept of vegetarianism in one fell swoop. How convenient. That's why they require no proof when they hear that Hitler was a veggie. That idea comforts them, so they're all too happy to latch onto it.

If you think I'm exaggerating about the importancethat anti-veggies place on the idea that Hitler was avegetarian, look at this letter that someone wrote toaward-winning author John Robbins, who has written severalbooks promoting a meatless way of eating:
You people who say that wewould all be more peaceful if we ate a vegetarian dietalways seem to forget that Adolph Hitler was avegetarian. That pretty well destroys your belief system,doesn't it? (FoodRevolution.org)
My god, take a look at that: It pretty welldestroys your belief system?! That's how importantHitler's alleged vegetarianism is to non-veggies. Theirbelife is that if Hitler were a vegetarian, thenvegetarianism itself is completely invalidated. Goodheavens!

And this brings up another point: It wouldn't mattereven if Hitler had been a vegetarian. That is, itwould not "pretty well destroy [our] beliefsystem". Bad people occasionally make good choices. What'sso hard to understand about that? Had Hitler actually chosento be a vegetarian, that would simply have been one of thebetter choices he made. If Hitler was fond of chess, thatwouldn't invalidate chess. In fact, one of the best playersin the history of the game, Bobby Fischer, was a ravinganti-Semite, but nobody stops playing chess because ofthat.
And of course, even if Hitler had been vegetarian, likelyevery single other mass-murderer in history was not.If you were keeping score, that would be, Vegetarian MassMurderers: 1, and then Non-Vegetarian MassMurderers: 100's.

And now we come to a curious battle: Hitler vs.Benjamin Franklin. Franklin was a vegetarian only forabout a year, from the ages of 16 to 17(ivu.org,08016.com),but of course most people don't know that. If a meat-eateris (mistakenly) told that Franklin was a vegetarian, they'lldemand to know whether he ever ate meat, and if it'sadmitted that he did, well, then that's their "Aha!" moment.They'll triumphantly exclaim, "So Franklin wasn'treally a vegetarian, was he?!" I'm sad to have witnessed aconversation that actually went that way

That's important because the same people have muchsofter criteria for Hitler. Hitler's "vegetarianism" wasthat doctors tried to put him on a vegetarian diet forhealth reasons, but he didn't really stick with it. Forthose desperate to believe that Hitler was a vegetarian, ifHitler ever avoided meat then he was a vegetarian.But the standard for Franklin is different: Franklin has toavoid meat 100% of the time for his entire lifeotherwise he's not really a vegetarian at all!

Why the inconsistency?
Because meat-eaters
want to believe that Hitler was a vegetarian and they don't want to believe that Franklin was. It's like if Hitler ever ate a potato then he's a vegetarian while if Franklin ate fish once after sixty years meat-free then he's not.
(To be clear, as we said earlier, Franklin was avegetarian only for about a year, but most people don't knowthat. I'm talking about how the standards would be appliedfor people who don't know.)

So what constitutes being a vegetarian?
Most wouldagree that it's a deliberate decision to not eat meat, forwhatever reason. By that criteria Franklin was a vegetarianfor a about a year, and for the rest of the time he wasn't.For Hitler, there's no compelling evidence that he stuckwith a real veggie diet for any appreciable length of time.Multiple sources document him as eating meat throughout the1930's. (See below.) Shortly before his death (in 1941 and1942) he claimed to be vegetarian, and "Hitler was avegetarian!" proponents have latched all over this. Because,Hitler wouldn't ever lie, or even exaggerate, wouldhe? I mean, this is Hitler we're talking about, andwho on Earth would ever question Hitler's commitmentto the truth? After all, if you can't trust Hitler,then whom can you trust? If you were going to pick oneperson in the whole world whose word you would definitelyaccept unquestioningly, that person would be Hitler, right?I mean, surely we can believe that every word that evercame out of Hitler's mouth can safely be believed to be theabsolute truth without any doubt at all, right?Rynn Berry adds, "To be sure, Hitler professed to be avegetarian..., but the primary sources that I have citedin my book show that while he paid lip service tovegetarianism, he was not consistent in his practice of thediet." [size=-2]([size=-2]source[size=-2])
The fact is, many people use the word "vegetarian" todescribe diets that aren't vegetarian at all, and Hitler'scase is no exception. An article from May 30, 1937, 'AtHome With The Fuhrer' says, "It is well known that Hitler isa vegetarian and does not drink or smoke. His lunch anddinner consist, therefore, for the most part of soup, eggs,vegetables and mineral water, although he occasionallyrelishes a slice of ham and relieves the tediousness ofhis diet with such delicacies as caviar ..."[size=-2]([size=-2]source[size=-2])So when Hitler says he's a vegetarian, he's almostcertainly using it in this context: He's a "vegetarian" whoeats meat. That's like someone saying, "I'm not abank-robber! I only do it once a month."
Still, for those who insist that we take Hitler at hisword literally about his claiming to be a vegetarian in the1940's, we have this gem from The Hitler Book, aboutHitler's daily routine in 1944: "After midnight[Eva] would direct that there should be anotherlight snack of turtle soup, sandwiches, and sausages."[size=-2]([size=-2]source[size=-2])
If Hitler was really a vegetarian, he was asausage-eating one.
Below are some articles which give the details aboutHitler's true diet.
From JohnRobbins'FoodRevolution:Robert Payne is widely considered to be Hitler'sdefinitive biographer. In his book, Hitler: The Lifeand Death of Adolph Hitler, Payne says that Hitler's"vegetarianism" was a "legend" and a "fiction" invented byJoseph Goebbels, the Nazi Minister of Propaganda. Accordingto Payne:
"Hitler's asceticism played an important part in theimage he projected over Germany. According to the widelybelieved legend, he neither smoked nor drank, nor did he eatmeat or have anything to do with women. Only the first wastrue. He drank beer and diluted wine frequently, had aspecial fondness for Bavarian sausages and kept a mistress,Eva Braun… His asceticism was fiction invented byGoebbels to emphasize his total dedication, hisself-control, the distance that separated him from othermen. By this outward show of asceticism, he could claim thathe was dedicated to the service of his people. In fact hewas remarkably self-indulgent and possessed none of theinstincts of the ascetic." [size=-2]([size=-2]more...[size=-2])

From theTorontoVegetarian Association:While it is true that Hitler's doctors put him on avegetarian diet to cure him of flatulence and a chronicstomach disorder, his biographers such as Albert Speer,Robert Payne, John Toland, et al, have attested to hisliking for ham sausages and other cured meats. EvenSpencer says that Hitler was a vegetarian from only 1931 on:"It would be true to say that up to 1931, he preferred avegetarian diet, but on some occasions would deviate fromit." He committed suicide in the bunker when he was 56 in1945; that would have given him 14 years as a vegetarian,but we have the testimony to the contrary of the woman chefwho was his personal cook in Hamburg during the late 1930s -Dione Lucas. In her "Gourmet Cooking School Cookbook," sherecords that his favorite dish - the one that he customarilyrequested - was stuffed squab (pigeon). "I do not mean tospoil your appetite for stuffed squab, but you might beinterested to know that it was a great favorite with Mr.Hitler, who dined in the hotel often."
From "The Animals'Agenda"1996 issue, attributedto Roberta KalechofskyIn their efforts to discredit animal rights activists,supporters of animal research periodically proclaim to themedia that Adolf Hitler was a vegetarian and that the Nazisdid not engage in animal research.
The implication is that these 'revelations' suggest asinister similarity between Nazis and animal rights'zealots' and serve as a warning that animal advocates havean anti-human agenda.
But the real story about Hitler and the Nazis is milesfrom the myth. One legitimate response to such claims isthat it doesn't matter whether Hitler was a vegetarian; asPeter Singer said, "The fact that Hitler had a nose doesn'tmean we're going to cut our noses off."
Biographical material about Hitler suggests acontradictoriness in reports about his diet. He is oftendescribed as a vegetarian who nevertheless had a specialfondness for sausages and caviar, and sometimes ham. One ofhis biographers, Robert Payne ("The Life and Death of AdolfHitler) took exception to the view of Hitler as an ascetic,and said it was deliberately fostered by the Nazis toproject an image of Hitler as pure and dedicated.
Wrote Payne: "Hitler's asceticism played an importantpart in the image he projected over Germany. According tothe widely believed legend, he neither smoked nor drank, nordid he have anything to do with women.
"Only the first was true. He drank beer anddiluted wine frequently, had a special fondness forBavarian sausages, and kept a mistress... "His asceticismwas a fiction invented by (Nazi propagandist Joseph)Goebbels to emphasize his total dedication, hisself-control, the distance that separated him from othermen..." Biographer John Toland ("Adolf Hitler"),describes Hitler's early student diet as consisting of"milk, sausage, and bread."
Moreover, Hitler never promoted vegetarianism as a publicpolicy for either health or moral reasons. His lack ofpolicies and public support for vegetarianism is significantin a leader who rigorously enforced other health policies,such as anti-smoking and anti-pollution legislation, andpregnancy and birthing measures for women.
The rumor that the Nazis passed an anti-vivisection lawis also filled with contradictions. No such law was passed,although the Nazis reported that such a law existed. TheNazis allegedly passed an anti-vivisection bill in 1933.
"Lancet," the prestigious British medical journal,reviewed the Nazis' law in 1934 and warnedanti-vivisectionists not to celebrate because the Nazis' lawwas no different, in effect, from the British law that hadbeen passed in 1876, which restricted some animal research,but hardly eliminated it. An enormous amount of research onanimals continued to be carried out by Nazi doctors.
The evidence of Nazi experiments on animals isoverwhelming. In "The Dark Face of Science," author JohnVyvyan summed it up correctly:
"The experiments made on prisoners were many anddiverse, but they had one thing in common: all were incontinuation of or complementary to, experiments onanimals. "In every instance, this antecedent scientificliterature is mentioned in the evidence, and atBuchenvald and Auschwitz concentration camps, human andanimal experiments were carried out simultaneously asparts of a single programme."
It is important that the facts be known so that the mythsabout Hitler and the Nazis cannot be used against the animalrights and vegetarian movements.
Animal rights advocates should not let these false claimsappear in the media unchallenged. The record must be setstraight.

Roberta Kalechofsky is a writer,publisher, and the president of Jews for AnimalRights


壇主原創漫畫•超古文明外星生命主題•二期完好評發售中

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老實講, 話係你都唔信啦, 佢對人都可以咁,點會'食齋'呀
冚家剷泥齊種樹
汝家池塘多鮫魚
魚肥果熟嫲撚飯
你老母兮親下廚

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from diary www.tinykylie.com

20 Mar    09 |Tiny card & Hitler?

Ok I'm not going to talk too much about it. Not sure if I have speak about it here before - Just want to mention the lines in "Watchmen","Hitler was a vegetarian too!" is a mislead to the audience - if you say a person do one day vegetarian life means a vegetarian, then I won't argue about it. Hitler only did that for around one year and the reasons was because this guy believe in many supernatural, doing vegetarian life for a period was for him to increase his spiritual power etc... that source of thing. you may read more HERE
好了,我不會說太多,不太肯定有沒有在這裡提及過 -- 只是想告訴大家在 "Watchmen" 內的幾句話 "希特拉也吃素呀'是錯誤引導觀眾的. 如果你覺的吃一天素也能叫作素食者那我不會跟你辯論, 但希特拉只實行'素食'一年,原因是純粹因為他是個相信 supernatural 的人, 認為肉食 (屍體) 的毒素會影響他的精神意識和能量,所以他只實行了一年來淨他身體,一年後便再吃肉.
可以看這裡

壇主原創漫畫•超古文明外星生命主題•二期完好評發售中

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而家d人都唔求證嫁啦...我唔算素食 (我食魚類,海鮮) 但係我明白點解有d人內心咁反素食...因為聽到人地話素食唔殺生唔食肉真係有少少覺得內疚,當然我唔係話食齌呀,養竉物呀,信教呀一定係好人,但係如果話 hilter都做,就好似可以完全否定晒件事, 有好多人反素食既就會覺的呢個point好使好用, 始終食肉既人佔大多數, 咁你少數,仲要比埋個hilter你, 你仲唔死?
本帖最近評分記錄
  • Ladykylie crop circle coin +4 我很贊同/ Totally Agree 2009-3-20 16:46

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引用:
原帖由 jasper2006 於 2009-3-20 16:36 發表
而家d人都唔求證嫁啦...我唔算素食 (我食魚類,海鮮) 但係我明白點解有d人內心咁反素食...因為聽到人地話素食唔殺生唔食肉真係有少少覺得內疚,當然我唔係話食齌呀,養竉物呀,信教呀一定係好人,但係如果話 hilter都做, ...
說的完全對
但同樣有些素食者又不理別人感受, 在人吃動物時談論這類話題 - 鼓吹是好,但不可以太激進,像我之前說過的,素食主義有點像傳教, 不可以覺的自己吃素就比人清高,這樣就像有些教派傳教一樣, 在別人沒準備前輸入太多資訊會反感

You are right
But Vegetarian should also respect their meat eaters friends, (for example some vegetarian would think they are more superior and talk about slaughter etc while their friends are eating animals) ... As I said before Vegetarianism somehow is like a religion, that you couldn't give too much information to the person while he or she isn't prepared too, that would only cause their anti-vegetarian feelings

Read this

Get told off for being a vegetarian? 當素食者要被斥責?

素食者如何處理人際關係?

壇主原創漫畫•超古文明外星生命主題•二期完好評發售中

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some conversation me and "some guy" discussing about it on my diary cbox.

Some Guy: For how long does someone need to be a vegetarian before you can say that he/she was a vegetarian? If you stopped being a vegetarian today, could I say "Kylie was a vegetarian"? Or have you not been one long enough?
(Translation: 一個人要素食多久才能算是素食者呢?如果你今天不再是素食者,那我也可以說 "kylie曾經是個素食者"吧?或是你成為素食者的時間不夠長當'素食者'呢?)

Ladykylie: yeah but you know the point is, all those book and media talk like Hitler was a veggi FOR HIS WHOLE LIFE and the fact is this is NOT
if he only does that a year i dont think there's any point to say he is a veggi - for what? just for those anti veggi people to milk it and say 'see, vegetarian doesn't means he care about life' etc .. like to make the whole thing screw up.
I think this is just not fair to put "Hitler" into a group to ruin the whole thing, and because to put this guy in the group would be the best way to say what the group is not any good - a perfect denial
(Translation:對啊,但你要明白論點是,那些書和媒體也把"希特拉是素食者"說得像他一生也是吃素的一樣,當事實不是這樣的時候
如果他只素食了一年,我看不見為何人們要拿著這點來說他是一個素食者-為什麼呢? 只是讓那些反素食的人可以利用這件事來說'看吧,素食者不一代表是關心生命權益的"..等等....可以把整個事情糟蹋.
我覺的故意把'希特拉'這個人放進素食者的行列內是不公平的,因為人們利用這一點'最好的證明'來說這行列有多不好, 而且使用這個人的名字的確對他們(反素食的人)來說是一個最好的反證)

壇主原創漫畫•超古文明外星生命主題•二期完好評發售中

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其實都唔駛擔心既
希特拉都禁煙啦
又唔見d人話禁煙係濺踏人權

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引用:
原帖由 iamcutie 於 2009-3-21 14:35 發表
其實都唔駛擔心既
希特拉都禁煙啦
又唔見d人話禁煙係濺踏人權
但出發點不同
吸煙始終是比較負面的,對身體也不好
但素食的主要出發點是自身修為或是不殺生等,沒必要被混入

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